Episode 63: Ask The Audience (#1): Adult Autism, Identity Shifts, and Podcast Insights
Jul 18, 2024
Show Notes
It’s natural to have a flood of questions following neurodivergent discovery, diagnosis, or while embracing a new identity. Additionally, there are individuals who might not identify as neurodivergent but just have curiosity about the very nuanced conversations happening in and around the neurodivergent community.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, respond to questions they have received from podcast listeners and their communities.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:
- Hear Dr. Neff and Patrick share their “surprising” experiences and personal growth as podcast hosts, including overcoming anxiety, balancing preparation and spontaneity, working on relational aspects of podcasting, establishing and honoring boundaries, finding confidence, and more.
- Gain insights into the late autism diagnosis journey, including common identity development processes like unmasking, exploring gender and sexuality, and how this affects relationships, as well as advice for communicating your diagnosis to friends and family, managing their reactions, and deciding when and how to educate others.
- Learn about the legal and medical implications of an autism diagnosis, the genetic factors, and how understanding family history can provide deeper insights into your own neurodivergence.
Your inquiries are invaluable, not just to you, but to countless others facing similar challenges. We will continue to have episodes like this in the future, so we appreciate your questions to help guide these future episodes.
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Transcript
PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to the Divergent Conversations podcast. We are two neurodivergent mental health professionals in a neurotypical world. I'm Patrick Casale.
MEGAN NEFF: And I'm Dr. Neff.
PATRICK CASALE: And during these episodes, we do talk about sensitive subjects, mental health, and there are some conversations that can certainly feel a bit overwhelming. So, we do just want to use that disclosure and disclaimer before jumping in. And thanks for listening.
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Divergent Conversations podcast. Today, we are doing an Ask the Audience episode. We asked for questions for you all to submit on our Instagram at Divergent Conversations. And we had quite a bit of response. So, we're going to see where these take us. And hopefully, answer a lot of these to the best of our abilities.
So, Megan, I think we wanted to start with the one that is-
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: …what has been the most surprising thing about hosting this podcast? Do you want to start us off?
MEGAN NEFF: First, I really like that question. Yeah. So, I mean, for one, I would say, like, our friendship has been, I don't know if I would say surprising, but it's definitely been a gift of the podcast. And I get that a lot from people in my community. They're like, "Our favorite part is just like the dynamic between you and Patrick."
I would say, so like, I don't know if this is surprising, but when I think back about kind of my personal development in the last couple years, I think this podcast has been a big part of it. Like, you know, I talk about my anxiety a lot, but I don't necessarily…
Okay, well, so, before we started this podcast, I was very comfortable behind my infographics and my writing. And talking and camera has always made me quite anxious. I did do some public speaking before this, but especially, when I entered this world, especially, it makes me anxious because it's like, sometimes I'll get a statistic wrong or a word wrong. And then, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I got that wrong, and now I'm spreading misinformation." And, like, there's so much anxiety in the moment communication.
And I talk about, you know, the importance of exposure when we have anxiety. And so, this podcast was an episode of exposure for me, of like, I'm going to show up, it's going to be imperfect, and I'm going to learn to be okay with that.
And I think on the other side of that, I have learned to be really gentle with myself. Of yes, there's weeks I have really bad brain fog, and I'm like, "I do not like how I worded that or I got that stat wrong." And it's okay. Like, I've survived it.
And I think that has been such a gift to learn that. And I think that has given me the confidence to then go on, and do more speaking, or to host live… Like the first time I hosted a live event in my community, I was so anxious.
And so, it's really interesting to look back in the last year and a half how much more comfortable I've gotten with speaking as someone who does have quite a bit of anxiety around in the moment speaking and my processing speed is on the slower end. So, there's a lot of reasons it's hard for me.
So, I think showing up and doing the thing, even though it's scary, and realizing that that really has led to a lot of growth for me. I would say that has been a great gift of this podcast. And maybe surprising, I don't think I ever thought I'd be someone who could comfortably say yes to talks, and podcasts, and whatnot.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think like as your co-host and like counterbalance in this, I've seen a lot of growth from you as a human over the last year and a half, too, exactly what you're talking about, where it seems like you've gotten into a process where you are a lot more gentle with yourself if we mess up on air or things just don't feel right. I think it would have, at first, been a situation where you may have texted me and been like, "Let's get rid of that entire episode." And now-
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: …it's, "Hey, can we just add a disclaimer?" And it's like, "Yeah." That feels like we're rolling with what it's like to just be human beings. And I think that was always my goal for this when I reached out to you and asked, like, "Do you want to host this together?"
You had come on my podcast a couple times, so we had some familiarity with each other. We had some Instagram conversation. But like, it's an investment, you know? Like, emotionally, financially, physiologically, sometimes, like, for us to do this stuff, and…
MEGAN NEFF: That's been a surprise. I didn't know how expensive podcasts were. [CROSSTALK 00:07:23]-
PATRICK CASALE: …, yeah, no kidding, someone sponsor this damn podcast so we can [INDISCERNIBLE 00:07:26]. Oh, yeah, that's fair.
But I think, like, I never expected the response to be what the response is. Like, I'm a part of so many different groups and so many different communities where I'm more of like a lurker. I'm not, like, really actively participating a lot of the time. But the amount of times that our podcast and your own personal, like, page, and resources get linked for things is really amazing to me because I know the impact that we have when you look at analytics. Like, when we look at analytics and we look at the numbers of podcasts, follows, listens, downloads, subscribes, streams, etc., and you see that this podcast is being listened to in 100 countries, and by a million people. That's impact.
And anytime someone shares an episode, or a resource, or a link because they want a loved one, or a colleague, or a client, or someone to feel better, validated, understood, and affirmed, and they use our voices and our conversations to kind of anchor into, that really hits me, like, in the fields where I'm like, "Oof, I wish we were making money with this."
But I have faith in what we're doing. And I think you have taught me a lot because, you know, I'm not a high preparation person, keynote speaking, don't prepare, podcasting, don't prepare. Just whatever comes up for me is what comes out. And you've definitely modeled, like, just being more intentional and thoughtful with what comes out of my mouth and how I think about things.
And I think it's helped me on my own neurodivergent affirming journey. I know there are still moments where I'm like, "Do I even really know enough to be a co-host of something so popular?"
And I also think I bring a lot of the relational component to the element, too, to allow for conversation to flow pretty naturally. So, I have to remind myself of that as well.
MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. And like, I was just thinking about that when you said that. Like, I think that's part of what works well about our podcast is I do anxiously prepare. Like, so I know we're like, "Are we going to hop into OCD today?" I'm like, "No, I need to reveal all the OCD stuff. Of course, I, like, you know, need a couple hours to do that."
But if it was just my mind, I think it would feel more luxury. And so, I think, like, I love that energies that we both bring, that keep it feeling, I think, informed. And also, alive, and generative, and personal.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely, 100%. And I will co-sign this, when I asked you about, "Do you want to start OCD?" And you were like, "I think we want to prepare and get guests." That was actually my initial reaction instead of being like, "Let's just go into it."
Because then I think like, "Do I even know enough about OCD as a clinician to have four episodes right now?" So, I'm looking forward to doing these collections as we go. I think that's what you see with podcasts, especially, good ones that, like, you follow the interest, right? And you follow what feels inspiring in conversation because, otherwise, it just falls flat on people. So, I think now that we're moving more into like, "Let's do these collections. Let's be really intentional with who we have on." I mean, I don't even know if we've been doing this for a year. I guess it's been…
MEGAN NEFF: Oh yeah, we have. We have 60 episodes. Like, yeah, we've been doing this a year.
PATRICK CASALE: But we re-released, like, ten or-
MEGAN NEFF: Six.
PATRICK CASALE: Six, okay, so…
MEGAN NEFF: Patrick, we've been doing this for like a year and a half [CROSSTALK 00:11:20]-
PATRICK CASALE: Oh, wow. The concept of time, you know, it's non-existent. So…
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, no, we've been doing this a while. Like, okay, yeah, we've been doing this like a year and a half. I think we released in like January of 2023.
PATRICK CASALE: Okay. And then, we held off a little bit because I was traveling a lot, and we had some episodes, and we wanted to get everything like sorted.
MEGAN NEFF: Yes.
PATRICK CASALE: Okay.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. But I think we started releasing weekly in like, maybe early spring of 2023.
PATRICK CASALE: And that makes sense. And not a lot of podcasts hit a million downloads. I think that's enormous accomplishment that I know we both struggle with like.
MEGAN NEFF: And I have no idea. Like, I have no reference points for podcasts. I'm like, "Okay, that sounds big, that sounds scary."
PATRICK CASALE: So, I think [CROSSTALK 00:12:13]-
MEGAN NEFF: But I like, purposely, don't think about it because then I'd get back into my anxiety.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: And I know, like, you don't share the analytics with me for that same reason.
PATRICK CASALE: I don't share when reels of ours go viral. I don't share bad reviews.
MEGAN NEFF: Thank you. Those become intrusive [CROSSTALK 00:12:32]-
PATRICK CASALE: …which is, you know, can't do anything about that.
MEGAN NEFF: You've gotten bad reviews about your voice?
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, like seven.
MEGAN NEFF: Oh, my gosh.
PATRICK CASALE: People are like, "Love the content. Can't listen to the vocal fry. Maybe they should clean the audio." And I'm like, "It's just my voice. Like, I just can't change how my voice sounds after throat surgery."
MEGAN NEFF: That sucks. That really sucks.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. So, I think RSD is a thing, you know, as we've talked about. We have a popular podcast. It's pretty remarkable because what I think about is from the coaching element. I run into so many people who try to start things that just never take off, and the fact that ours took off so quickly.
A lot of podcasters would say it takes about five to seven years to obtain one million total downloads. We hit that in about a year, which is wild. Again, you all listening sponsor the damn podcast. You'll get in front of a lot of people.
But I take a lot of credit in that with like, how we've shown up through the good, bad, and the ugly. Like, sometimes the behind-the-scenes conversations that you and I have about expectations, or communication, or what we want out of this, as we're both busy humans and I really appreciate that we've created a friendship where we can have conversations about, like, what is important to both of us in this dynamic.
MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah. I really appreciate how like, and that was one of the things I said to you when we started is like, I am doing a lot of education, but like, I want a place to be more human. And I think that's really also what people are responding to, is like, we're showing up as our imperfect human selves.
And also, like, that's part of like, I don't know what your experience has been, but that's part of what also helps me be gentle with myself, is like showing up as my imperfect human self. And then, the really kind, warm response, both from you, but from listeners. Like, that's been incredibly healing for me, which, again, thank you for not sharing the bad reviews for that reason. That would… Not that, like, I want to, you know, constructive feedback, I always want to be open to, but there's just meanness.
PATRICK CASALE: Good ones are so good, and that's what I try to focus on. And I share those with you from time to time. But the ones that are just like, all right, whatever, who fucking cares?
But yeah, I mean, I've learned so much about just myself on this podcast. Like, just about autism and ADHD, and about my sensory struggles, and about putting better boundaries in place. And I thank you for that because, like, I've gotten significantly better, and I still have a long way to go with that. But like, really becoming so much more intentional in trying to combat autistic burnout all the time, and that being, like, at the forefront of my mind in like every decision that I make, is this going to lead me towards this? Or is this going to pull me away from this? And I think that's, like, thanks to this, and having this resource, and replaying a lot of the conversations that we've had in my head has been super helpful in my own journey.
MEGAN NEFF: I love this of like personal growth through podcasting. So, if you want to go on a personal growth journey start a podcast.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: Really simple, really cheap. There's easier ways to get personal development. But yeah, I do like reflecting on the personal development of hosting this thing with you because there's been a lot of it for both of us it, sounds like.
PATRICK CASALE: For sure. So, whoever asked that question-
MEGAN NEFF: Thank you.
PATRICK CASALE: Thank you for it.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, okay. I'm getting the like, "Oh, I feel like I'm talking about myself and our podcast too much. Let's get to content."
PATRICK CASALE: Go for it.
MEGAN NEFF: I'm getting that itch in my head. So, I kind of clustered some of the questions, diagnosis, and treatment. We got some questions around that is autism generally genetic?
Yeah, it's got…. the stats kind of, there's some range, but around 80 to 90% heritable is what a lot of the twin studies and civilian studies have found.
Now, that's not to say heritability studies can be kind of confusing. That's not to say, like, if you are autistic your kid has an 80% chance of being autistic. It's a bit more complex than that. It's like, the genes are contributing 80% to that.
There's also, I think, and I think this isn't talked about enough in the ND-affirming movement. There are reasons outside of heritability that a person might be autistic. Like, for example, I have a friend who had a… There was a complex birth. And it's thought that it resulted in the child being autistic. There's no other autism in the family. And it's been interesting to think about that.
I think as we want to move away from the deficit base, like there's a problem, therefore, you're autistic. But in that, I do worry about where there are times where due to a birth complication, especially, if it's like the oxygen has been deprived for a while, where a child might be autistic. And I think that makes a lot of us uncomfortable because it's like, "Well, an accident happened, and then they're autistic." So, like, we still affirm that identity, right? But I think that throws some of the premises of the ND movement of like we're born this way. It can make some of us uncomfortable.
So, I feel like that's not talked about enough. That, I would say, is a small percentage. Most of us are autistic because we got it from our parents. But there are cases where you can be autistic for other reasons.
PATRICK CASALE: It's a great point. And, you know, I do a lot of looking at genealogy, and like family history, and relationship now because of the high prevalence. And it just makes so much more sense to me. Like, you can start to pinpoint family members where you're like, "Oh yeah, that makes a lot more sense." Like childhood, quirky, weird behaviors make a lot of sense from parents and like, grandparents, and stuff like that. So, that's been a really eye-opening part of this journey for me as well, to learn more about my own lineage and ancestry.
MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. And then, also, like, you know, when one person in a family is identified as autistic, the other family members often have, like, siblings or one of the parents will have more autistic traits than kind of… So, yeah, there's a big genetic component to autism, which is part of why you often hear like it's innate, it's our wiring, it's neurology, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Right.
MEGAN NEFF: Pros and cons of late in life diagnosis. Do you want to take a stab at that one?
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. I mean, I think that throughout this podcast we've talked so much about what we've termed or coined like grief relief, the pros and cons, looking back about later in life diagnosis. We have so many episodes that kind of encapsulate that experience. But just to go into it briefly, yeah, I think there are pros.
The pros for me, and this feels first and foremost, especially, for you later in life adult diagnosis, when you're not seeking a diagnosis for accommodation purposes or for any other reason, I think the common thread is the desire to know, and better understand yourself, and to have a better understanding of the world around you, and why it impacts you the way it does, and how you move through it.
And I think those can really be pros of later in life diagnosis, is kind of having a completely different lens and perspective shift about what you've kind of known or thought about all along, but you didn't have maybe the terminology, or the verbiage, or the diagnosis to stick with it. And that is something I would consider a pro. What about for you, pros or cons?
MEGAN NEFF: I almost want to tease it out between, like, pros and cons of late in life discovery or identification and pros and cons of late in life diagnosis. So, with, like, discovery, I think all of the identity piece that having the accurate lens to understand ourselves, I don't think there's a lot of cons. I mean, there's, like, grief work to work through, and your relationships are often going to change because you're kind of discovering who you are. So, there's messiness to that.
For diagnosis, I think about things… And we actually have a podcast where we get into this, maybe we can link to it. But things like, I know you were denied an increase in your life insurance policy and autism was one of the reasons for that. So, there's things like… Or I can't move to Canada if 2024 election goes a certain way, and I'd really want to, and, like, I can't because autism is on my medical record.
So, there's legal medical implications of having this on your medical record. And it's not like there's this whole like, shop of tricks and supports that opens up to an adult once they're diagnosed. I do think having an official diagnosis for a lot of us helps with the impostor syndrome. And with that, like, okay, yes, I know this with certainty, which is nice for the autistic brain.
But there are, frankly, some cons. And so, I think it's really an important thing to weigh the pros and the cons, or the risks and the benefits of an official medical diagnosis.
Now that said, like, I went through a private psychologist. I haven't chosen to, like, release that information to Kaiser, who's my like medical system. So, it's actually not officially in my paperwork. So, there are, like, if you go with a private psychologist or a private provider, you have some agency about where you choose that information, especially, if you private pay. But, yeah, it's complicated.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it is. It's complicated, for sure. And I think you just laid that out perfectly. It can have some impact. So, I think you have to kind of step back and ask yourself, like, the why? What is the why behind pursuing diagnosis? Like, why is this important to me? Acknowledging that there can be some fallout and some negative impact. There can be some safety and discriminatory situations that can arise.
MEGAN NEFF: And then, there's legal protections. Like, then also you're legally protected under, you know if you're in the US, the American Disability Act. So, it is. It's so complex, like…
PATRICK CASALE: Super complicated.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: I can probably definitively speak for both of us that we would say we've experienced more pros than cons with our acknowledgment and diagnosis. We have a lot of privilege and we've acknowledged that, too. So, what a complicated situation?
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Which is a good segue into the next question, which is, what to do after diagnosis? And I honestly want to write a book. It's been on my mind for a long time, called something like, You're Autistic…. Now What? Because…
MEGAN NEFF: That, oh my gosh, I love that, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Well, I think about how, if we're talking about how your complete world shifts and changes, you're still the same human, right? Like, you're still the same person that you've always been. You've got this label, you've got this diagnosis, you have this new lens to better understand. You probably start deep diving. You probably start embracing identity first language a lot more, you probably move more into that ND-affirming movement.
What ends up happening sometimes is people kind of lose themselves in like, I'm so enmeshed and I'm so immersed in this newfound identity. And it feels really powerful. And it feels really empowering. That some of my friends and family are getting a little annoyed that this is all I talk about, that now that I have this label and diagnosis the same issues still are still the same issues, and I don't know how to do anything with them.
There's a lot of questioning, and a lot of confusion, and a lot of overwhelm post-diagnosis. And I really want to write that book to help normalize the process because, like, it is an overwhelming experience.
MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. Yeah, no, I have an infographic that's like, Now What? And it's basically the idea like, okay, you're autistic. Here are themes that often come up in therapy for autistic people. And I also want to, like, develop this more.
Because it's really been interesting to be in community with other therapists working with later-identified autistic people. We're seeing the same themes come up for people. Like, there is kind of an identity development process that it's like, oh, wow, this is really interesting because it unfolds so similarly for people. I think you nailed it with, like, the identity piece. There's a lot of identity exploration, especially, because most of us identified later have masked a lot. So, the process of unmasking, or there's a term I really like from an Australian writer. She talks about it as unearthing, which I really like that. It's more like grounded and embodied, this process of coming to know ourself.
And I've found that leads to a lot of identity exploration. Like, for me, personally, it led to gender and sexuality exploration. It led to, like, a shifting of my religious identity. Like we said, relationships can change.
So, I often say it's like, once you have this lens, it's like all identities are back on the table. And that was very much my experience. And I see that a lot for a lot of folks.
I also think things like healing our relationship to our body. So, a lot of us have coped with the sensory overwhelm by becoming very dissociated from our body, from our experience, learning about our sensory system, learning how to sensory regulate, learning about our nervous system. Like, all that, bodywork, essentially.
And emotions tend to come with bodywork, as obnoxious as that is, so learning to work with our emotions, which we then have a lot of in this process. There's often a lot of internalized ableism and neurodivergent shame. I think, learning to like, be gentle with ourselves.
So, yeah, there's kind of these key themes that I definitely notice come up for folks. And, yeah, I think I lost the question, but I'm at the end of my thought.
PATRICK CASALE: No, I mean, you answered it really well. And I think it could be a whole episode, honestly. Like, might write that down, like, what to do after your diagnosis because I really do think it brings up so many questions, and so much confusion, and overwhelm, and newfound perspective, and new identity, identification. And you're kind of relearning who you are in a lot of ways. Like, we've talked about on here so many times, what do we even like to do? Our senses of self, like, just [INDISCERNIBLE 00:29:38] in touch with like hobbies and allowing yourself to unmask in certain situations, and what does that do for your experience, and your energy? And yeah, it's a big question. And again, whoever asked that, I appreciate it because it's something that's on my mind pretty consistently.
MEGAN NEFF: One practical thing I do often tell folks is to get really comfortable with it yourself before you start sharing it. And then, to kind of go gradually, to share it with people that you're pretty sure are going to feel safe to share this with because one thing I do see happen sometimes is someone gets so excited because they finally understand themselves. And then, they go out, and they share it with lots of people. And then, they get some really hard feedback, like, "Oh no, that doesn't seem right. You can't be autistic." Or like all that feedback, and until we have a lot of kind of confidence in this in ourselves, that can really, I've seen that really impact people in their process.
And so, just being aware that there is an instinct to like, go share it with the world, but also, like, treating it as kind of this sacred thing that you're protective of until, like, I think of it as, like this little baby flower that's growing its roots. And until it has pretty sturdy roots, being really thoughtful about who you share this with.
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. Megan must be in a creative mood today, by the way because if imagery [CROSSTALK 00:31:00]-
MEGAN NEFF: Because of metaphor?
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And that actually answers someone else's question is, how do you share this diagnosis with people you're close with, or you've been in relationship with for a long time who may be skeptical, who may be dismissive?
Because it can be really, really painful to be excited to share with people you're close with, to say, like, "Guess what? Like, I finally figured it out." And for the response to be like, vacancy, or dismissal, or minimization, even sometimes manipulation. Hell, when I shared it with my mom she was like, "You are a happy child. Like, that's not what I saw." And for me, that was definitely not the response that I was looking for.
Or you can share it with people who kind of get it. I think taking it a step further is if you can share it with other neurodivergent people. I think that's really important if you want to share in a really safe container a lot of the time, people who have also gone through their own exploration and diagnosis process, or at least questioning it, it feels like that can be a big place to do it.
This was not a question, but this could take us down a rabbit trail, and I don't want to go down it right now because of time. But, like, even sharing it with a therapist is not always a safe conversation if that therapist is not a neurodivergent affirming therapist, or doesn't really know how to respond because a lot of the times we've heard the horror stories, which are true for a lot of people, where the therapist has immediately said, like, "I'm not well versed in autism. I don't know how to support you. I'll help you refer out."
And so, anyway, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole right now, but that also happens. So, I think, like you said, treating it really delicately, protecting it until you feel really confident because there is definitely going to be situation where people are going to respond with their own ableist perspectives too, that they haven't unpacked. Like, for me, I know I've shared before that a lot of responses were like, "But you're so high functioning, and you run so many businesses, and you're so smart and successful." So, like, that also really plays a role in the social disability movement and is really emotionally impactful as well.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, and I know we've talked about this before in here too, but I think that's part of what can be so exhausting about it is self-disclosure often also walks hand in hand… Okay, hands don't walk, what metaphors are mixing? Walks with educating.
So, like, yes, I'm autistic. Oh, yes, autistic people can run businesses. And so, I think that is part of the thought process, too, is like, okay, do I feel prepared to educate? Do I have the energy to educate right now? Like, if this is someone who's really close to me, like that's going to be worth the labor, right? If it's like a partner, or a spouse, or maybe a parent. It's like, okay, that's worth the investment of educating because this is someone who's in my orbit and a relationship I care about, and this is really going to understand. If it's like a random coworker, it's like, do I want to put in the labor to educate this person?
So, I think also just thinking about how important is it for this person in my life to get this. And I think then we can put our energy, kind of, in a value-consistent way, in the sense of, like, yes, this is a relationship that really matters to me, and so, I am going to invest in this way.
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. So, also, flip side of that, maybe don't spend your limited energy and resources educating people in social media threads who are probably not going to get it. And I think that's another side of a post-diagnostic process is like wanting to educate everybody and share everything you've learned. And sometimes that's just going to fall on deaf ears and it's just not going to go the way that you want it to. So, be protective of how you talk about things.
MEGAN NEFF: I also think it's interesting, like, in general. I'm really intrigued by, like, communication. And I think realizing there's communication that's effective, and then, there's communication that's like, this is why I think it really matters of what's the goal? Like, is the goal to like, off steam. Again, like, I'm mixing words a lot today, your anger. Like, that's a valid goal. If you have anger because there's been some misinformation and you've been missed, like, that is so valid. But also, know, like, that's what you're getting from the dialogue.
If your goal is to change minds, then we want to think through like, how do I communicate this in a way that doesn't activate the person's defenses? Because we know, like, as soon as we're confronted with information that creates cognitive dissonance in the mind, we tend to get more entrenched in our old beliefs. That's just human nature. So, there's ways of coming at these conversations that makes it less likely for the other person's defenses to get activated.
And that's part of what gets missed in social media, is like, I think, there's a lot of expression of emotion under the guise of conversation. And again, there's validity in having an emotional response, but maybe the intentions aren't matched, like, between two people having a conversation online. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but…
PATRICK CASALE: You're making perfect sense. I agree, 100%. Okay, where do we want to go from here? We've got mental health and co-occurring conditions. We've got initiating dialogue, we've got personal and professional challenges, a lot of questions about couples. I don't think we can get into that today with our limited window, but we should definitely. We've mentioned before doing an episode on like cross neurotype couples, and communication, and relationship. And I think that-
MEGAN NEFF: We should, yeah. Can I grab a question I see that kind of connects? We've been talking about diagnosis.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely.
MEGAN NEFF: Thoughts on online assessments. So, first, and I once made a post where I used the word assessment and I should have used the word screener. That's my bad. So, these are actually online screeners and the word… So, a screener is something where it's like, like, if you go to the doctors it's really common to get like, the PHQ-9, which is a depression screener.
And what that does is it's like, okay, if this is positive, it means we should ask more questions to determine if the person's experiencing depression. And so, what's available online are screeners. And this is like, okay, your AQ or your CAT-Q, like, these are above threshold. This signifies we should do more investigation.
I like to think of these online screeners as a data point. And it's a really valuable data point. There's some really good ones out there. I think the AQ, the CAT-Q, the RBQ-2. Back when I was doing assessments, these are all part of my battery. We do more on top of that, but these are really good data points, and they are one data point as which gives you one perspective and as part of, like, the bigger hole.
But yeah, I think this is a great place if you're starting to explore autism. I think this is a great place to start, is with those online screeners.
PATRICK CASALE: Agreed. I think it's a good, like, entrance way to pique your curiosity and then do significantly more deep-diving assessments and tests.
MEGAN NEFF: Yes. But I want to be like, okay, one of these was positive, therefore, I'm obviously autistic, or I'm obviously ADHD because there can be other reasons why a person might be positive on one. But yeah, most, yeah, yeah.
Embrace Autism is a great resource for people looking for online screeners. They have a bunch, and they also have a lot of education about the screener as well as like you can automatically get your score when you do it online. So, that's a great resource.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, that wraps up episode one of Ask our Audience today. We are going to start doing this once a month where we ask questions of the audience and we try to answer try to answer them live on air while we're recording.
Next week, we will do another follow-up on getting to the questions that we didn't get to today because of time. But thank you for submitting them and thank you for supporting.
